Speaker 0:17

But here's the thing. I'll have some of the toughest times and the biggest breakfast. And that's exactly what we do. Most friends, most men, just the people living it every day. Let's get into it.

Speaker 4 0:31

My name is Joe Reed. I live in the South Plains Panhandle of Texas. Farm with three brothers and a nephew. Farm multiple crops, corn being one of them. What else you want to know?

Speaker 2 0:49

How long have you been farming there, Joe?

Speaker 4 0:51

Almost 50 years. I figure as long as we're making money, it'd be great. This year that may change.

Speaker 5 0:59

Right. Daniel Berglund, farm down in the Texas Gulf Coast area, 70 miles southwest of Houston. And again, I farm multiple multiple crops also, including corn.

Speaker 3 1:12

I'm Heath Hill. We farm up in Gruver, Texas with my father-in-law and my brother-in-law. We grow corn, wheat, cattle, and kids.

Speaker 2 1:24

When he's talking kids, he's talking about four in your house and five in the house.

Speaker 3 1:28

Four in my house, and my brother-in-law is fixing a drop number five.

Speaker 2 1:32

You know, all I can say is your father-in-law deserves that many grandkids, and I hope they all act like your little brother-in-law.

Speaker 4 1:39

Sound like to me you don't work enough.

Speaker 2 1:43

He's been working hard.

Speaker 1 1:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:46

Okay, uh, well, some of the things might just do, you know, I've been around this thing 26 years, nearly twenty - we're about to wrap up 27 years. And there's one constant I've had through all of that time, and that was Joe Reed.

Speaker 4 2:04

We've been here longer than that.

Speaker 2 2:05

He was board chairman when I began work. And uh, Joe, could you just kind of throw out a little bit of history about our board? Uh nobody's been here longer than you.

Speaker 4 2:17

Well, the checkoff board is was designed for education research only. We don't do politics through the checkoff board. The association is a separate board, and we can do anything any association can do. So if we're gonna do uh any kind of lobbying or politics, it's by the association. The checkoff board, I don't, is it two cents a bushel now? Two cents a bushel, yeah. Which is paid by the farmer, and that's what supports the checkoff. We work with uh Texas Tech, Texas AM on all of our research and issue problems, and if we have somebody else we want to work with, even out of state, we do anything that benefits a Texas corn farmer.

Speaker 2 3:09

So Daniel, you're you're our further a south producer today. What prompted you to to get on to start on this board, and what what's a big issue that we've helped address from your perspective?

Speaker 5 3:29

Well, that's a good question. Uh I can't remember sure how I got started or where I got the phone call. It's been it's been a while now. Uh, but I was already active on a couple other boards, commodity boards, and I really enjoy working with the men that are involved in commodity boards. It's always volunteer work by people that really care about their industry. It's it's nothing selfish about it. It's about making things better for your industry, all corn producers in this situation. And I and that's that's the what I get, the gratitude I get from it is working with those people on the problems we have. And some of the big problems we've had has been aflatoxin. It's been, you know, making sure we produce a safe and uh consistent quality commodity for the for the buyers, corn, the the grain feeders, the cattlemen, or the or the chickens or whatever, whatever it's used for or for export. Uh but uh I would say I would say between the aflatoxin and uh the um irrigation help that we've been able to provide for producers to be more efficient with the with the water usage has been very beneficial to the producers of Texas.

Speaker 2 4:39

Well Heath, you're you're new in our board right now. I mean, just in your first year, but you're not new to some of our activities. And uh, but you might kind of talk a little bit about some of your inspiration for for being on our board, things you really like to see us be working on.

Speaker 3 5:00

Well, I started out coming with to NASCAR with you and back then, and that was my kind of my first taste of it, and then we went up to Washington and did I feel like we're doing a lot of good. And you know, when I got the phone call to to be on the board, I felt like it was my chance, my opportunity to bring a little younger blood to it. I'm not one of the youngest ones here, but there are quite a few of y'all that are leaving us.

Speaker 2 5:32

Okay, so hey Heath, you just you mentioned just a bit ago NASCAR promotion. You know, that's something that's been a few years ago that we did, and you might just mention a little bit about what you did, and then I'll kind of fill in the pieces, maybe.

Speaker 3 5:49

Well, uh, so American Ethan had us, you know, helped us. We got to go out there and I got to bring my oldest with me, which he wasn't very old at that time, but he uh he had the opportunity to learn about American ethanol, and we got to go through out and throughout the infield, throughout the outfield, and everywhere, and help explain what American ethanol was and that it really wasn't the devil. That all the big old said it was.

Speaker 2 6:16

Some of the big things I remember was y'all coming in after going out and talking about these people, all they're not farmers. You were getting to tell them about your farm, telling them about growing corn, how that ethanol came from the corn, and we're running those cars on E85, I believe. And uh it was just always so interesting hearing the stories that when y'all were working that infield and going through those campers. It was quite interesting.

Speaker 3 6:47

It was a lot of fun, and not just that. We uh we got to learn the step by step through their through the trailer that American Ethanol brought, and go from the actual planting the seed all the way up until it was distilled into ethanol.

Speaker 2 7:02

It was that was one big promotion that we did for about five years, I believe. And uh, you know, ethanol's a big market. It impacts every one of y'all's farms. I know y'all probably feed the distiller's grains, it's uh a byproduct, and Joe drinks the ethanol.

Speaker 4 7:26

Only on occasion.

Speaker 2 7:27

Only on occasion. And uh Daniel, that's you know, that's added to all of our market. Some of those. That's that's just one of the promotional things we've done. Uh, y'all have heard from some of the other members about places they serve, you know. Might mention what you heard a lot about U.S. Grains Council today, what they've been working on.

Speaker 5 7:49

Right, right. And we have, you know, the exports, even the exports of ethanol that we've developed that we make here in the United States, uh, it's a big market for the grain industry, for the corn industry. And those, those, those mandates have really helped prop up the commercial prices for our corn.

Speaker 2 8:05

You know, Joe, I remember one of the when I first began, one of the first trips we went on, uh, we went to a U.S. Grains Council meeting. You might kind of mention what we fund the U.S. Grains Council to promote corn around the world. You might kind of mention some things about what they do.

Speaker 4 8:22

Well, Grains Council usually is strictly exports. They don't deal with domestic grains at all. And and we make more corn, well, Texas doesn't, but the United States has more corn production than we can use domestically, so we export a lot of corn. And not just corn, we export corn by virtue of beef and ethanol and other products that uh corn is used in. We have an ethanol plant right in my neighborhood, and it unloads a unit train probably every week, every two weeks, and there's not enough corn grown locally around that ethanol plant to keep it running, so it has to use corn from the Midwest to supplement our corn locally.

Speaker 2 9:11

Yeah, that that plant's there in Plainview, it's close to your home, and uh they do bring in a lot of that corn by unit train from the Midwest, but the ethanol gets put in a rail car and there generally goes to California. Uh the distiller's grain leaves and goes direct into the feedlots and dairies.

Speaker 4 9:33

Yes, which is used locally mainly.

Speaker 2 9:35

Right there, used within 100-125 miles of that plant, and it's you know when we first started working with this deal with ethanol, uh some of the cattle feeders and others were very against against that, but we had a surplus of corn, so it was important to to get that moved to the market, but all of a sudden they really liked that byproduct of the distiller's grains as a feed additive.

Speaker 5 10:02

It's about change and having to add it to their ration and how they could utilize it. When they realized how digestible it was and helped out with their rations, it wasn't that big a deal.

Speaker 2 10:11

I can recall one of the feedlot neighbors up to y'all at one time with Texas cattle feeders was talking about it being not about how detrimental that was to him. And then we were in a meeting and he one of the plants had shut down, and he was talking to one of the board members, Wesley, your neighbor. He said, Wesley, we've got to have more of those distiller's grains. And Wesley said, Yeah, we've got to make more ethanol so we can have more distiller's grains. That was that was kind of one of those aha moments, I think, for for him as a actually it might have been your kin folks. It was Monty that did that.

Speaker 5 10:51

So Well, there was a fear because it created more demand, so the price went up. And so they were concerned about the ex it had a cost of feed at the feedlots. And uh, of course the petroleum industry gave us a lot of feedback too because they didn't like the competition for the gas tank that it brought too.

Speaker 2 11:08

Yeah, ethanol's been one of those uh big topics for corn for for a long time now, and it continues to be because you know we grew went from the time I worked at an elevator and helped buy corn off Joe's farm, growing eight to ten billion bushels of corn, and now last year we grew 18 billion on a national basis, and we had to have more demands, and that was the route that that we went. So I know setting here, all all of y'all are in areas where you do some irrigation. What's what's your biggest challenge, Joe, right now with your irrigation?

Speaker 4 11:53

Our problem is uh our water supply is a finite resource and it's beginning not to have enough water to pump for corn specifically. We're having to change our rotations because we can't pump that much water anymore. And you're over the Ogallala. Yes. In the panhandle, yes, or I'm from a little town called Crest, and uh right in that area, uh we're we're uh not near the irrigation we once had. We don't have the water supply we once had.

Speaker 2 12:27

How's that kind of changed the economy of that area?

Speaker 4 12:31

Oh, it's hurt it terribly. Uh CRP has hurt the economy in our area, which is a program the government started to take some land out of production. And it was supposed to take out marginal land, but it is taking out some pretty good land in places. But uh the economy in our area is suffered because of those kind of programs. Plus, as as the water supply goes down, so does the economy a little bit.

unknown 12:59

Okay.

Speaker 2 13:00

Daniel, your your water situation is a lot different than Joe's. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 13:05

So we have average about 46 inches of rain a year. It's just a matter of when it's going to come. Sometimes it happens when you don't need it and uh and not when you do. So we do some irrigation, uh, but it's as needed uh in our fully irrigated crops, and and in in and even we do intermittent irrigation when we need it during the growing season, our cost of lift because the water is so deep, is making it almost you know not economical to do it. I mean, you've almost got to be able to figure if I do this once, I'm gonna have to be able to do it two or three times to to get the yield to offset the cost of pumping the water.

Speaker 2 13:41

Well, I know you also use some surface water. Yes, but I'm gonna bring up the fact that Daniel's also a rice grower. Yes, sir, and very involved in USA rice. Yes. And so that's brought you some unique challenges that surface water, Colorado River Authority. Right. Why don't you mention just a little bit about that?

Speaker 5 14:04

Sure, sure. I've been very active in that that that spectrum of uh water availability from the Highland Lakes in Central Texas. Uh it's all rain-fed Highland lakes, and the uh the demand for industry and and uh domestic use cities of Austin and other cities in that area is has grown as the population has grown exponentially in the last 10 years. And so we are ag has always been the uh interruptible consumer, which means if there's water not available, we're the first ones to get cut off. So, and when we do get water, we use quite a bit, and so that's that's why we're we're at the the bottom end they'll say, well, we don't have enough to give you water this year because of drought, we don't get water. And uh the cost of getting it delivered to the farm is about five times what it was 15 years ago. So we've gone from a flat acre rate of maybe 40 or 40 bucks an acre to now it's $73 an acre foot. So, you know, if you use three or four acre feet, it could add up in a hurry. So the cost is there and the availability is not as reliable as it was before because of other draws on the reservoirs.

Speaker 2 15:22

I know that's been an interesting thing because in our Texas Gordon we've worked on a lot of water issues, and at first it was primarily all groundwater issues, but uh it's interesting to learn about as I was traveled to state and worked with our directors that you know Daniel lives a long way from where Joe and Heath lives and all those local issues. Uh Heath, your situation, you don't have any surface water up in your country. It's all or rain. Or rain.

Speaker 3 15:54

Yeah, we don't have any either. But no, we're we're more like Joe is, not quite as bad as we're not at his level yet. Uh, but we are seeing a depletion in our area, and I mean it's getting to where you can tell when your neighbor turns a well on.

Speaker 2 16:11

You can you can we can feel it in our so your whales what what what's a lot of their capacities on pumping?

Speaker 3 16:20

Well, some of them go from a thousand down to I mean you'll have some guys that are running several smaller wells. So you're talking a thousand gallons.

unknown 16:31

Okay.

Speaker 3 16:32

Uh kind of on us. We're averaging, you know, anywhere from three to six hundred on us.

Speaker 2 16:40

And so if you've got six hundred gallons per minute, you're you're applying that to sprinklers, yes, sir.

Speaker 3 16:47

Overhead irrigation and try to try to be as efficient with that water as we can. We've got everything, we're not running any kind of dragon lines or anything like that, but we're we're l running low and slow.

Speaker 2 17:00

And the low pressure drips right close to the ground.

Speaker 3 17:04

Yes, sir. Trying to keep that trans evaporation down as low as we can.

Speaker 2 17:10

Okay. So I know your water district has so much of a pumping restriction. What is it up there? Uh 18 acre inches or 18 inches, 18 acre inches per acre.

Speaker 3 17:28

I I honestly I couldn't tell you because we don't pump enough water to ever get close to our allotted amount.

Speaker 2 17:35

Yeah, we've got these restrictions in some of our water districts, and I know for some of the places we're over there where they've got the dairies and they're growing forage year-round. It comes up to 18 acre acre inch of allotment, but that's per acre that the farmer owns. And that's that's real good at allowing us to be able to grow the crops we need. But it's still a restriction in regard to you just can't run water and waste it.

Speaker 3 18:05

Well, penalty if you do. And and it's really a good thing, you know. We've talked about how many kids I've got coming up, and I'd I'd love to be able to leave a legacy. Uh having if we continued like we used to with the row water and everything, and just throwing the water out there on the ground, I'm not gonna have any kind of anything but grassland turned back to my kids. And I want to be able to, I want them to be able to come home and farm if they want to.

Speaker 2 18:35

Well, Daniel, he brought up a legacy. What about your family and what you hope?

Speaker 5 18:40

So our four children also, and my oldest is all is farming. He has husband, husband and wife operation just like I do. And uh we farm here and we've started farming in North Louisiana because they got a lot more water there and a lot cheaper. But anyway, it's it's uh that's a whole nother story. But uh my youngest, my young, my youngest son and and my second son also work for me now on the farm. And uh, you know, whether they take over the farm one day or or not, that's gonna be their choice, you know, based on economics and and everything else that go along with it. But I I hope I hope they do. I hope they enjoy it and they can make a living at it, but it's it's getting tougher, it's getting tougher all the time.

Speaker 3 19:20

Really is. But uh well, and you said husband and wife deal, and that's one thing on our place. If we didn't have our wives, oh yeah, it'd it'd be impossible for us to do anything.

Speaker 4 19:34

Be impossible to have four kids, that's for sure.

Speaker 5 19:38

And to feed them and to clothe them and to do everything. Yeah, yeah, to get everything done, everything that goes along with being a family.

Speaker 2 19:43

So you're I know you're at a different point in life than having you kids home farming, but kind of about how y'all's operation goes and how you see the future for it.

Speaker 4 19:54

Uh in our area, road crop farming is gonna be a thing of the past before long. I figure everything will go back to cattle, grass and cattle. Used to we'd take fences out because our equipment was so big it was just a problem to turn against it. Well, now everybody's putting fences back in. So that's where our area is headed back to there. Well, Daniel said he got 46 inches a year in our area. It's very similar to that. We get 46 inches a decade.

Speaker 5 20:27

Four to five a year, huh?

Speaker 2 20:29

Yeah. So as you look at the future, is your nephew gonna some of your family gonna step up and take it, or how do you see like that?

Speaker 4 20:42

Uh my nephew will end up with all the farmland at some point. I'm not quite ready to quit. I'm really close, but not quite. I probably won't ever quit because I don't I don't play golf, I farm. And you can't farm and play golf and make a living. And if you can't make a living farming, you better go get you a job because it's not gonna wait on you. You gotta go out there and make it happen.

Speaker 2 21:06

Well one of the things kind of along that line is and getting it getting it set up so you can pass it down and maintain yesterday. We've had others bring up to us and you know, I I just worry about what what's gonna happen to my property once my kids get done with it. The question is, what are your kids gonna do with it in a lot of cases?

Speaker 4 21:37

Well, at that point, when you've already turned it over to your kids, I wouldn't worry about what happened to you because it's not yours anymore.

Speaker 5 21:44

Well, and all my land is rented land, but I deal with that situation quite frequently when the landowners you've been working with for twenty or thirty years pass away, and now you got their children and their grandchildren, they want to check. They don't they're not interested in maintaining that property. It's a whole different mentality than it was 20 years ago.

Speaker 2 22:04

Primarily cash rent land?

Speaker 5 22:06

Cash, some shares. Especially when they pass and it goes from dealing with the landowner to his kids, that's always shifts to a cash rent because they want a check instead of a responsibility of paying bills and everything else.

Speaker 3 22:20

And I've noticed that a lot in our area. The people that are coming around helping with the secession plan on what's going to happen next and going ahead and making that decision to do that. I've noticed that.

Speaker 2 22:36

So what makes you stay awake at night?

Speaker 3 22:41

Pivot track. Pivot? Pivot track, which is that's our system that tells us when our sprinklers go down. Oh it'll tell us water pressure. I mean, it goes through the whole deal for us, but that thing will deem and then you get up and go. Because like you said, we're trying to save as much water as we can. When a sprinkler stops in the middle of the night, you want to get it back running as quick as you can. But um the water water issues are probably one of our my biggest concerns. If it would just rain.

Speaker 2 23:20

Just rain. I'll make you stay awake at night, Daniel.

Speaker 5 23:25

As a as a as a Christian, I've been trying try to surrender my my concerns to Jesus and God to take care of me. But that being said, being human, I worry about whatever the season calls for, whether it's good planting conditions or good growing conditions or good harvest conditions, and always thinking about market and cost issues. So it's hard to let go. And it's but it's uh, you know, being a tenant farmer, I guess one of the biggest things what I mentioned earlier is is the land going to be available next year? Is are they gonna sell it to somebody that's gonna do something else with it? We have a lot of renewable energy issues in our area that are calling our landowners to do something different with their property than have it farm. That's that's a big issue in our area. Um, and others, the cattle markets being so high now, we've got farms that have fences still on them, and they're wondering about maybe just taking it back and putting it in. They got got kids, kids, grandkids saying, hey, we won't put cows on the farm. You know, you don't need that rice farmer anymore. We're gonna put cows out there. It's not like they're making a lot of money today, you know. So it's it's uh I guess the uh the the the economic viability of my future is probably the biggest.

Speaker 2 24:48

What do you do keep you awake at night anymore, Joe?

Speaker 4 24:51

Indigestion does sometimes, but other than that, I don't want to stay awake at night. I worry about the things I can change and don't worry about the things I can't.

Speaker 3 25:02

We try. Yeah. I'm ready to be that old.

Speaker 2 25:05

Yeah, everybody should be as old as Joe. Yeah. You know, as I think about it, I I think I think about a lot of things. I I can't help it. I'm like Daniel, I like to turn it over and go to bed and let the good Lord take care of things, but that don't keep me from waking up at night and thinking have I got my son involved in something he shouldn't be involved in. You know, is is this going to be economically viable?

Speaker 5 25:34

I think I give the right advice today.

Speaker 2 25:45

Some young guys that are just you know, in their third or fourth year of farming. Of course they're with their dad and got some good advice, but I just look at that investment they've got setting out there. And we look at what everything costs, all of their input costs, and in fact, we're getting dependent on Mother Nature's to let us have moisture. And I I think sometimes I worry about my neighbors because they're great people.

Speaker 4 26:14

But that's I worry about young people farming sometimes because uh they've taken on a huge risk nowadays. And if they don't have a little bit of help, like you said, their father, their uncle, somebody to assist them getting into farming, it's almost impossible. In our area. It's everywhere. But equipment is very expensive. Who would have ever thought we'd be paying millions of dollars for one piece of equipment?

Speaker 2 26:43

That's what I I don't think a lot of people understand.

Speaker 5 26:46

There's I don't understand. Capital investment is huge.

Speaker 2 26:49

It's what the capital investment is. I mean, you mentioned a million dollars, you can buy a new combine and a new grain header.

Speaker 4 26:58

That's over a million dollars of corn head in the combine.

Speaker 2 27:02

You gotta have it. And if you or a good copper for at the same time, you got two million.

Speaker 5 27:06

And the value of that equipment is based on the profitability of your industry. This year it might be worth a million, next year it might be 850,000, next year maybe 900,000. It just the market will pay what it'll pay based on the condition of the economy.

Speaker 4 27:20

The problem is once you buy that thing, you still have the payments. It's yours no matter what happens. It doesn't matter that the it's turned down a little bit, that you still got those payments.

Speaker 2 27:28

You're you're kind of in a different spot. You you married into.

Speaker 3 27:33

I married into some really good help.

Speaker 2 27:36

I mean, and how how would it have ever worked for you to start without the fact that you had some family support there?

Speaker 3 27:43

Oh, it it'd have been impossible. I don't I don't see any way unless my daddy was rich and which he wasn't, but uh I don't think there was I don't think there's it. I don't I don't even see how people decide I'm gonna be a farmer and just go out and do it without the help of somebody. Even the younger guys that I know that have done a little bit of it, they've had help with they've they've gotten their foot in the door with the right person that kind of took them under their wing and helped them out.

Speaker 2 28:17

Yeah, I I remember, you know, his father-in-law, Bart was on our board at one time, and I remember him talking about heath showing up with his daughter, and uh he wasn't real sure he was gonna go back and be a farmer with him.

Speaker 3 28:33

I don't think any of us were until until it happened.

Speaker 1 28:36

Right.

Speaker 3 28:37

Um I didn't grow up farming. I grew up my granddad had a cow calf operation, and we did hay and we had a corn orchard just uh just east of or yeah, just west of Corsicana. And it I've always wanted to, I never knew it was actually gonna be an option for me. And like I said, if without without being able to do this, I don't know where I'd be. Uh it'd be I wouldn't be as happy I can say that.

Speaker 1 29:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:12

Okay, so what's your biggest this year? What's so far, what's been the biggest challenge for you this year?

Speaker 3 29:21

Uh well, we haven't really started yet this year, except for we never got a winter. Uh no snow that's gonna cause, we're gonna have an issue with that, and no moisture in the ground with our wheat that we have. You know, we're gonna we're we've got cattle out there, we just pulled them off. So we're we're getting ramped up to plant corn, but it's gonna take some water this year.

Speaker 2 29:47

What's one of your biggest issues you face so far this year, Daniel?

Speaker 5 29:52

I'll tell you, uh weather has not been a good for us either down south. Uh lack of rainfall since the first year has been been a problem. Um and so we've and then we did get planted, and then it turned off dry and windy after that, so now we have this rootless corn syndrome. But we did get some rain. It's Easter Sunday, which was God's send. So hopefully that's going to turn around, some of that around. But the fertilizer costs are outrageous. Um, you know, the employees you're trying to keep everybody if you can, and as many people as you can, and and just fuel costs getting them back and forth to work and everything else, and vehicle parts. The you you see you see these numbers coming across your disc, and you're like, the market's not keeping up with this. The commodity market's not. And we know we need 120% of our yield average at these prices to come out. We're starting out with a weak plant to start with. So, yeah, my weather and cost of production.

Speaker 2 30:57

So, did you mention the rootless corn syndrome?

Speaker 5 31:00

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2 31:01

Yesterday that came up in some of our discussions, and I'd never really heard of that.

Speaker 5 31:07

Yeah, so so you plant your corn maybe two inches deep to three inches deep, and then and the goal of that is to have moist dirt in the topsoil there for the roots to anchor roots and feeder roots to take root in the dirt because it happens above the seed, not below the seed. And if you uh plant too shallow, it'll happen up above the ground. So we do that deep planting, so that we'll do that. Well, it's been so dry and and low humidity and wind and lack of rainfall that the ground is dry all the way down to the seed. So it's still alive from that one root, but it has all the anchor roots are like little nubs that ran into a wall and couldn't do anything because there was no moisture to grow into. But I saw some pictures of some that got it that got a rain this last week and weekend, and and it's already started turning yellow, like they're starting to go back into the ground. So there's there's still hope for the plants that haven't died. But nothing, you know, any what is it, a child or a calf or anything else that starts out behind an eight ball like that, your yield potential's not what it was the day you put the seed in the ground.

Speaker 2 32:12

Without irrigation, that would happen all the time for you two guys.

Speaker 5 32:16

Well, we we we have people that back home that irrigated and it's still it still happened. Especially in the heavy black clays where the wind came through and it just expanded, it just pulled the dirt away from the seed when it shrunk, shrunk away from the seed.

Speaker 2 32:32

So something else that we might I don't know how how you guys do. Oh, do you all have to hire extra labor?

Speaker 4 32:40

Is it available when you need it or it's not available readily, but yes, we do have extra labor, uh extra help, mainly because I'm getting old and don't care. If somebody's gonna do the work, it's gonna be somebody else. But following up on what Daniel said, we're in the worst drought we've had in probably 10 or 15 years. In fact, I saw on the news the other day that since they've been recording weather uh data, it's the first time in our area that it did not rain in the month of March ever.

Speaker 2 33:15

I saw that out of both Lubbock and Amarillo reported that. And what about your labor situation?

Speaker 5 33:24

No, I have about four, four, five full pime employees, but the other commodities that I raise, you know, uh, between rice and corn, soybeans and cotton. And my son, and he maybe he probably has three. So we have quite a few. I've been blessed. I don't I don't know why it works out, but it works out. You know, every year it works out to provide family, five families, a living besides ourselves. But uh been very fortunate to have good employees. I've got two that are ready to retire. One retired, he's just working a little bit once in a while to afford it that as long as it doesn't affect his social security check. And uh then uh the other one's thinking about retiring here in a month or two. And we've got two H2A employees that we're hoping to get here. This we got one this month and the other one next month. Uh good men that we hope to take their place, you know. And uh, but yeah, that's uh it's been a challenge. But I've been fortunate. Good people, yeah. Like I said, I've got people to be with since 91, some since 07, you know, and since then it's kind of they come and go.

Speaker 2 34:30

Okay. Heath, what about child's labor situation?

Speaker 3 34:34

We raised them.

Speaker 2 34:35

You raise them.

Speaker 3 34:36

Yeah, okay. It's everybody from my father-in-law to me, my brother-in-law to our boys. I mean, it's a true family operation.

unknown 34:45

Okay.

Speaker 3 34:46

It and it and it takes every one of us. Um, yesterday when I started driving down here, both my boys got up at five o'clock and saddled up their horses and missed the first little part of school to go move cattle.

Speaker 5 35:01

There's nothing like family when it comes to employees, I'm telling you. It's it's not only rewarding, but they also have more, I don't know what the word, care. I don't know what the word is, you know.

Speaker 2 35:14

So, Daniel, you mentioned H2A employees. How big of a challenge is that?

Speaker 5 35:21

It's it's it's not an easy task. You have to you have to go through a process uh looking for employees and then going through their different uh the people that actually apply for the job and if they're qualified or not locally first. And then when it goes out and into the to the outside the country, you know, then we had the people in mind already that we wanted. So it was just a matter of going through that process and showing that nobody wanted that job. Once they applied and you explained to them what was going to happen, they they didn't want it, you know. But uh, but then you have to provide housing, and they come out and they and they they look at the housing you're gonna provide if it qualifies, and you have to provide transportation. You have to show them the transportation is gonna be qual that they're gonna be utilizing. So it's it's a lot of a lot of hoops to jump through, but you get men that really do. I've I've witnessed in other operations the men that get this and they really want to be here and they really want to work to better their families wherever they're from, whether South Africa or Mexico or wherever.

Speaker 2 36:25

Uh so I'd assume your boys they probably eat enough to earn their keep.

Speaker 3 36:35

They definitely eat enough. And it's not just the boys. I mean, my daughter, she's 17 now, but she's been driving a tractor for several years now, and she's probably one of the best ones. She gets on there and never gets off. She can put a book on tapes and I guess it's not tape anymore, yeah. Audible. Yeah. But she'll get on there and she she's the best, probably best big mower that we've ever had. Nobody wants to mow.

Speaker 2 37:07

So, Joe, do y'all have y'all just used mainly workers from around the area?

Speaker 4 37:12

Oh yeah, they're permanent. We keep them for years. In fact, uh, we had some that started with us and retired with us, and they they're gone now, but and we replaced them, but we keep them well when they come to work for us, they usually stay a long time.

Speaker 2 37:28

You know, kind of off the subject, but it's something we've supported has been uh pest management programs. And I I remember many years ago, one of the first times I met Joe Reed, I was an employee with Every Life Extension, and we were having a pest management meeting out in the barn, and your dad was running the show. Well, he thought he was. That was an important thing. I think that's y'all are still participating in that.

Speaker 4 37:56

Same kind of system, yes.

Speaker 2 37:58

Yeah. That that's something we've supported with checkoff dollars over the years is uh IPM programs. And uh certainly they provided a lot of benefit for our growers.

Speaker 4 38:10

Yeah. It it started that program. Actually, out of that program came all of the other people came in, entomologists came in as private employees, but uh we're still in the government program. I mean, it's a it's a government private deal. We pay money just like you would to uh uh an entomologist or agronomist outside, yeah, a consultant. But uh all he does is uh entomology for us. We don't use him as an agronomist.

Speaker 2 38:40

You know that uh Hail Swisser County Pest Management Program, they've gained a new recognition because one of their former students that scouted was Justin Benavitas, who's now the current uh what's his position chief economist for USDA. Correct. Yeah, out of out of that pest management program that Steve He scouted for us some.

Speaker 4 39:08

And I scouted for him a time or two because his dad was sheriff and he'd called me and said, Have you seen my son?

Speaker 2 39:14

But that's that's been an interesting thing over the years that some of those workers where the where they've gone.

Speaker 4 39:22

That's one of the good things the corn board has done, actually, in my opinion, is the intern program where we sponsor college students to go to either Austin or DC to uh work in those government offices. We started that uh or we helped start it. We weren't the only ones involved, but John Abernathy, who's now deceased, became the dean of the ag school at tech, and that's when that started at tech that year. I'd I'd witnessed AM doing that for a while, and I thought, I don't know why in the world we can't do it here. Now, tech always had somewhat of a program, but it went through the president's office. We started it through the ag school. And it's really uh, I think that's a great deal. It's blossomed into something that uh those young people can use for a lifetime.

Speaker 2 40:11

You know, one interesting fact about that is uh a guy named Drew Deeberry was one of the first interns. Uh he went to uh Senator Duncan's office, I believe. He wound up being the White House liaison with George Bush to fill the USDA positions. Fast forward, his son came walking in our office and applied for an internship in our office in Lubbock.

Speaker 4 40:41

Shows you and I are both getting a little uh great behind the ears.

Speaker 2 40:46

That's an interesting thing because now his son is working on the House AG Committee over the commodity title programs. So it's been a kind of a full cycle for that whole time. It's been real interesting. You know, right after Austin came in, his name's Austin DuBerry, came in. He hadn't any more than walked out of my office. He's still in the building, and his daddy called me. He said, Don't hire my son unless you really want to, because it's I don't want you using it, I don't want him using my name. I said, he didn't even tell me who his daddy was. So I was real proud that that's the way it worked. He he wanted to do it on his own and he has. And you know, while we were in DC, the ones that were there a week ago, uh, he he helped us a lot. But out of that, all of our interns that we've sponsored that are now staffers in DC, not all of them, but a bunch of them. No, uh all of them that are up there. We've got we've got a lot of I feel like I've got a lot of kids everywhere.

Speaker 4 41:52

Similar story with my son Ryan. He applied, he was an intern, and then he applied for a job at uh after he worked for the ag committee, he applied at the National Corn Growers. And David can tell the story, but I didn't call anybody. I didn't help him. I said, if you want that job, try on your own. And you finished how that turned out when Dogit called you and said, Do you know this kid?

Speaker 2 42:15

Yeah, yeah. They got a call wanted to know if I knew this kid. Well, lo and behold, his daddy was chairman of our board, but he went in and made it on his own.

Speaker 4 42:24

Yeah, I didn't call anybody.

Speaker 2 42:25

We've seen so much development from those kids.

Speaker 4 42:28

But it all came from the intern program or the commodities sponsoring those young people to go up there.

Speaker 2 42:34

Yeah. And that program's allowed them to develop.

Speaker 4 42:37

Yes.

Speaker 2 42:38

You know, we interesting, we have one of our former interns that's in the White House press corps, and he's really been a big asset to us. Colton Schnedaker has been a big asset. So I feel like the money we've spent investing in these kids has been a big benefit all the way back to your farm.

Speaker 3 43:03

Oh, I mean, they're the ones that run, they run the capital. They run, they're the ones running this country.

Speaker 4 43:10

I sure think they do.

Speaker 3 43:11

Yeah.

Speaker 2 43:12

They're the ones that write up the paper so the senator or the house member can look smart when they're sending them calls.

Speaker 4 43:19

And taking all the phone calls in and write speeches and answer the phone. That's right. That's been that's a that's a great program that most people don't even realize that cotton, corn, grain, I don't know what all wheat all have a hand in sponsoring those people. But corn really has taken a lead in that area.

Speaker 2 43:39

I know I have a lot of pride in knowing where a lot of those whether they interned in our office or where interns we sponsored and got to know just where they are. They're we got, like I said, I feel like we have kids scattered all over the state of Texas and all over DC. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 4 43:59

We do.

Speaker 2 44:00

We do.

Speaker 4 44:00

And they remember that we helped them. Cause if uh I've had 'em come up to me and I don't have a clue who's talking to me, and they thank me for the experience they have. I didn't have anything to do with it personally, but I served on a board that did.

Speaker 5 44:17

So some of our promotion has been promotion of our commodities, but it's also been promotion of our industry through the education and whether it's through internships or through the K through five programs we run, you know, for education.

Speaker 2 44:31

Yeah, a lot of those educational programs go in and hearing Haley talk about all the schools and big areas that they're putting materials out. It's it's we've got to teach our next gener that generation because they're far removed from the farms. One of the things and uh Stephanie had told my staff, I think she went to Dumas one time, Dumas, Texas, middle of big cornfields at the time. And they had fourth graders that come in there, and some of them didn't know anything about corn. They didn't know it didn't come from the grocery store. And it's grown right there in their backyard. It's quite interesting how those things reach. So anyway, well, what what else a big issue that y'all want to kind of hit today?

Speaker 4 45:30

Inputs is gonna be one of our toughest issues to tackle. We spend more money to make a crop than sometimes we get back, and that will not work. You can't sustain that very long.

Speaker 5 45:42

And it's it's like baking a cake. When it calls for two cups of milk and five eggs, you can't just put three eggs and a half a cup of milk. Oh, you can, but you're not gonna like cake. You know, and so everybody says, Well, you need a budget, you stick to your budget. No, I've got to have XYZ. If I don't have it, I'm not gonna make a crop.

Speaker 3 46:02

Our budget's not made on what we want, it's made on how many acres we're trying to get and what we need. What do you need?

Speaker 4 46:09

And you said it right a while ago. You said I need 110 to 120 percent of my yield or average yield to make a living, and you can't count on that in years like this.

Speaker 3 46:20

Oh, we when you got diesel prices where they're at, and you've got fertilizer prices where they're at. I mean, that's not to mention insurance and everything else.

Speaker 5 46:28

Insurance, all insurance, and that's that's a that's a civilian thing, too. I call civilian, a farmer thing and a civilian thing. But our insurance, liability and and and fire and windstorm and all that other insurance, it's just so astronomically higher than it was five years ago. It's crazy. And we have no control over it. We have no control.

Speaker 4 46:50

All we can do is sit here and whine, and that doesn't do a bit of good.

Speaker 3 46:53

No, it doesn't. I've made the joke that, and it's not really a joke because it's not funny, and you know, a farmer's the only one that pays full price, full retail. Yeah, pays the ship in both ways and sells everything wholesale.

Speaker 4 47:06

Yeah, and hope the check clears.

unknown 47:08

Yeah.

Speaker 4 47:09

We've had failures nowadays of elevators and other things that have the farmer's the loser in that deal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 47:20

We certainly had some challenge, you know.

Speaker 4 47:24

Then our uh CEO quits, and now we got to do that all over again.

Speaker 3 47:30

Well, you're the only one that's doing it again.

Speaker 4 47:33

I probably won't. You'll have to do it.

Speaker 3 47:36

That was the phone call I got. Hey, we wanted to know if you'd be on the if you'd be willing to run. Oh, by the way, I quit.

Speaker 2 47:46

Uh they give me a hard time all the time.

Speaker 3 47:49

At least you gave us gave me a little bit of time to get to learn from you.

Speaker 2 47:54

You know, y'all mentioned inputs and stuff. I think y'all can tell some stories about what we're doing with checkoff dollars and membership dollars trying to help with that.

Speaker 4 48:07

If one of you'd like to address a few things, we're trying to control the prices of fertilizer. One of the specific things, and I don't know how we're gonna get that done, but we can't get anything done if we don't work on it.

Speaker 5 48:18

Well, we shed the light, we shed light on the problem.

Speaker 4 48:20

Yes, we're trying to.

Speaker 5 48:22

And and so finding finding the solution to the problem is yet to be seen. But uh addressing the problem for the producers is is is a is a first step.

Speaker 4 48:31

Right. Because we cannot raise any crop, corn, anything, without nitrogen. It takes that input. And if you start cutting that back, you've cut your yield. That's that's all there is to it. I can raise a big crop. All it takes is fertilizer and water, and I can raise a big crop, but you gotta have that combination to make it happen, and that's our limiting factors now.

Speaker 5 48:56

On the water side, you know, we were supporting any any more uh advancements in efficiencies in water consumption, usage, timing of irrigations and how it's applied to try to keep the volume down, which keeps the cost down of water.

Speaker 2 49:12

He do y'all have to buy a lot of fertilizer in your area and do you use a lot of feed a lot manure, compost?

Speaker 3 49:19

Well, manure is not really good for nitrogen, so we still have to get more nitrogen. We'll get some fossil, we get a lot of phosphate. We do spread a lot of manure, but you know that's really good for phosphates. It does have some nitrogen, but it's not enough to do what we need to do to make a good crop. Turn around and turn it back into fertilizer again. That's kind of our goal just to get it back into the cattle as fast as we can.

Speaker 2 49:49

I have it compost, manure.

Speaker 4 49:51

Oh, yeah. Compost and raw manure both, but like he said, you still gotta have a nitrogen program that's not connected to those two, because that's not near enough.

Speaker 5 50:02

Down where I'm at, is it's because of the weather, it's almost impossible to get it done. And and a lot of the feeding of animals is not done down there because it's so hot and humid. But up here where it's kind of cool and dry.

Speaker 4 50:14

We used to use a lot of anhydrous. At least strong, but nobody uses that anymore.

Speaker 5 50:17

Oh, yeah, we did too. But the liability of pulling it down the highway, nobody wants to sell it.

Speaker 4 50:21

So now it's all liquid, and liquid usually is only good for one year. The thing about anhydrous, you might get two or three years. You could get a corn crop, a cotton crop, maybe wheat out of one really dressing, and with urea and stuff, you gotta have every year the same amount applied. You can't, it won't carry over. It's not as stable, not like that, not like that.

Speaker 2 50:43

You know, to to that point, that kind of highlights the differences we have in our state. You know, whenever you've got uh nearly 5,000 foot elevations and parts of the northwest panhandle down to sea level.

Speaker 5 51:00

65 foot.

Speaker 2 51:01

And where Daniel's at. And you know, heaven forbid the hurricane comes in. Like, is that Katrina?

Speaker 5 51:09

That's that was a little further east. Uh you're gonna have to learn to use salt water, that's all that's we we haven't had any salt water intrusion where I'm at, but uh you know we South Texas gets those hurricanes and tropical storms, I know we saw watermarks on your trees for stuff back then. That was Harvey, Harvey, Harvey, yeah, Harvey. Yeah, yeah, our house flooded for that.

Speaker 2 51:31

That was real devastating in that area. You ruined a lot of crops in the field. Yeah.

Speaker 4 51:37

Ruined a lot of things besides just crops.

Speaker 2 51:39

Oh yeah. Oh well. From a from our perspective, ruined crops, but it ruined households, they ruined families, I'm sure. But that's a big difference. I don't think we'll see a hurricane dump and flood out you guys up there in your area.

Speaker 3 51:56

No, it's it's it's been a it's been a minute. You know, last year we had quite we had some good rain last year starting out, and everything was looking a lot better, but when it turned off, it turned off.

Speaker 4 52:09

Sound like one of my notes just came due.

Speaker 3 52:12

They come to find you, are they?

Speaker 1 52:14

Yeah.

Speaker 3 52:17

Every good drought starts and ends with it, with good rain.

Speaker 2 52:22

That's the way it seems like it has of the high plains of Texas for sure. I've worked across the state, it's the same, same every place for us.

Speaker 4 52:33

So you can't compete with Mother Nature. I've always said I'd make money with mud, but I cannot make money with dry dirt.

Speaker 3 52:41

No, and corn that grows off the water from heaven is a lot better than the water from hell.

Speaker 2 52:49

I never heard it put that way.

Speaker 3 52:51

Yeah, when we have to pump it up as far as we do, it's what it feels like sometimes.

Speaker 5 52:55

I've got my best crops with rain over irrigation.

Speaker 4 52:58

Of course, where I'm at, a lot of times I'll irrigate and ten days later it rained four inches and destroy everything I did. Yeah, it won't destroy it though. That's that's a good thing. We don't have that problem very often. I've had one year where we didn't have to water it but one time. Most of the time, we were once we start, we never stop.

Speaker 3 53:19

Well, I haven't this year. I had I started last February, and I've had a sprinkler running in every month since. We shut off at Christmas and we shut off for those two cold spells. But other than that, we've been watering wheat, trying to keep something in front of cattle.

Speaker 2 53:37

I know this year it seems that a lot of areas in our state we had a mild winter in general everywhere. You you mentioned that. Yeah. And uh some of the folks started planting way before their normal planting time.

Speaker 3 53:52

We haven't quite got there yet for you to, but no, but I've got I've got neighbors that are, I think they were gonna try to start this week.

Speaker 5 54:00

Yeah, they're getting neighbors that are replanting because they planted early, and the corn was too big when we had that coal snap killed it.

Speaker 4 54:07

And the one concern we have because of the mild winter is insects now. Yes. We don't know what'll happen. I mean, you can't look in the crystal ball and tell, but usually when that happens, you have an insect problem.

Speaker 2 54:19

Right. Well, certainly that's something that we'll keep working on through our corn board activities is our monitoring and moss trappings and things that we do to put that information out to our growers. But you're you're right. We have mild winters that that brings on a lot of other issues. We may celebrate because we didn't freeze on that.

Speaker 5 54:42

Another reason to spend money.

Speaker 2 54:43

Oh, yeah. Yeah, we're up another 10% to 140.

Speaker 4 54:52

Those are tough decisions to make sometimes when you you gotta decide whether to spray or let it go. And usually when you let it go, it's a bad idea.

Speaker 5 55:00

I've got neighbors already that are saying I don't know if I'm gonna spend any more money on it.

Speaker 4 55:02

I don't know, but that's a real bad idea.

Speaker 5 55:04

That's that's already that's tough this early in the year.

Speaker 4 55:06

Yeah. I've always heard everybody say it's a great life. If you're making money, it's a great life. It's a lot of stress. If you're losing money, it's not a great life.

Speaker 5 55:16

If you're if you're not, it's a lot of stress.

Speaker 4 55:18

But one thing, Stephanie, I told her one time, one of my favorite things is to tell a young guy, don't give up. If you quit, you're done. Now that's any job. It's any job. Not just farming, anything. Once you quit, you're through. So sometimes it looks like you're not gonna make it, but don't quit.

Speaker 3 55:35

Well, that's what I've told my son. You know, he's 18 now, and I told him, I said, you know, we don't, we're not trying to make a million dollars, we're not trying to make make it big. We're trying to break even. If we can break even, that means we had a good life for the year, and we can do it again next year.

Speaker 5 55:54

The bank's gonna renew the note. Well, that's one of the things that was taught to me early on. Um, I I actually was probably my son, my son Dylan, the eldest, told me he's I'm the only farmer he knows that started with zero. When I came out of college with a business degree, I started working for a farmer and bought a pickup. So I started farming the next year. All I had was a truck note. I had no cash. I've been very fortunate to have a banker that agreed with the loan application I asked for to start farming that next year. And uh with a lot of luck from him and from other farmers that helped me along the way, I was able to get started. But it's like you said, you can't. Now it's hard to start on your own. But to look to the future, to to to what's what can be, what could be, and to be willing to take that chance and hang on and and don't let the debt get to you. You know, don't let the debt eat at you. No, that's part of your life, that's part of what you're doing, and it's okay. It's okay to have debt. Just you be prepared to manage that debt. Don't try to beat it, just manage it. And one day you you might be successful enough to get beyond it, you know.

Speaker 3 57:03

And in a Dave Ramsey world where we're taught to live debt free, it's really hard because I know at our high school, that's what they teach them. You know, you need to live debt free. Like it's it's a farmer community, you need to be realistic with them.

Speaker 5 57:17

If you're gonna be an entrepreneur or a business owner, you've got to be willing to hang on to debt, own it, and live with it. Don't let it don't let it eat you, but to live with it, know how to manage that, manage that risk and that stress that comes with it.

Speaker 2 57:33

So I I just asked this question, though. Has the farming life, was that was one of the big benefits being able to raise your kids, work with your kids? I think what you mentioned.

Speaker 4 57:47

Well, it's not a great, it's a benefit in a way, but it's not the only way to raise kids.

Speaker 2 57:52

That's one of the good things for people.

Speaker 4 57:55

He he said it right if you can break even. But by breaking even, he's talking about three or four families that have lived for a year. He's made all of his payments, he's probably bought a little bit of land along. So breaking even the way he's talking about means he's still making money.

Speaker 3 58:12

Yes. You cannot survive without making money. Staying out of the red, yeah.

Speaker 4 58:17

That's right. Now you may have to obviously you have to acquire debt if you're gonna buy property, buy equipment, anything like that. But that equipment has to make you money. You have to use it for that purpose.

Speaker 3 58:30

And that's the same thing with the land, make it all the way down to a full weather payment. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't matter what it is, it's a lawnmower. It's got it, it's gotta have you have to have an ROI on it.

Speaker 5 58:40

You gotta think about what does that cost me per acre to own? Exactly. Every little thing you do, what does that cost me per acre? It might be 25 cents. That 25 cents and another 25 cents, and uh it adds up fast, whatever it is you're doing. And until you make the money, don't spend it except what you have to to make that crop.

Speaker 4 58:58

We had an old gentleman in our area. First of all, he went and bought a tractor, and the tractor dealer called me and said, Can he afford to buy a tractor? I said, Oh yeah, I think he can. So he asked him, he said, How are you gonna pay for this? And he said, Will you take a check? And then he calls him the next year and said, Monroe, you didn't make your tractor payment. He said, Oh, I didn't know I had one. I thought you told me this tractor would pay for itself.

Speaker 3 59:27

That's a good one. Yeah.

Speaker 2 59:30

Joe had a neighbor out there, though. I gotta tell this story. When I started 1974 in Blingham, Texas, I was with my train rate and all these liner, and we were in the Pat's Ferguson dealership. And this little guy came walking in, had on his coveralls, they were dirty and greasy. You know, he just came from the farm, he walked in, he told his salesman, said, I want name the combine, the number, and all that. I want it, I want it delivered a certain day. And that guy looked at him and said, Well, can you afford it? And one of the James Brothers guys came running out of the back of the store and said, If he wants it, you sell it to him, you deliver it, because he's gonna write a check for it when he gets done. It was Eldon Terry's dad. And I've never forgot that because you you can't judge a farmer by what he looks like when he walks in.

Speaker 3 1:00:29

No. Well, that's what I can't remember who it was. Well, I can't remember his name now, but when I was at tech, we were going to church there at First Baptist, and this old man pulled up in this 1990 suburban, and I'm I mean, it was you could tell it it had some miles on it. And come to find out, he was probably one of the richest men there and love it.

Speaker 4 1:00:54

Can't judge a book by its cover sometimes.

Speaker 2 1:00:57

I'll never forget that when the boss came running up there to that salesman said, anything he wants, he can have the store if he wants it.

Speaker 4 1:01:06

I went to school with a guy from Demmitt named Bruegel, and his dad dressed the same way. You couldn't tell that he had any money. Well, he broke down somewhere in New Mexico. His pickup generator or alternator went out, and they didn't think he had enough money to buy one wherever he was at because he didn't carry cash. He didn't have a shirt on, he had on overalls, shoes, no socks. And then he said, Well, can I at least use your phone? They said, Well, sure. He made a phone call, and about 30 minutes later, he goes in there and said, I need just a little more help. Could y'all help me clear the highway? My pilot's fixed on land to bring me that. True story.

Speaker 2 1:01:46

We probably got way off track there.

Speaker 3 1:01:48

Yeah. I want that problem though. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I could use that.

Speaker 2 1:01:52

All right. We just want to thank you for joining us today.